本期邀请到了具有跨国背景的印尼华裔剧场艺术家Elisabeth Gunawan（Betty）。小明们与她认识的契机各不相同，但她善于总结并输出金句的能力实在震撼小明。2021年以后，Betty在英国剧场圈中频频发力，并创作出了Unforgettably Girl，Stamping in the Graveyard等频频获奖的作品。本期节目中，小明们与Betty着重聊了她新进将于Barbican演出的Prayers for a Hungry Ghost，并探讨她的创作理念。

姓名是假的？来自于个人选择。

剧场不值得？但仍然选择剧场。

贫穷的艺术家？但总能找到应对方法。

In this episode, we had a conversation with Chinese Indonesian theatremaker Elisabeth Gunawan (Betty). Each of us got to know her at different places, but we’ve all been blown away by how sharply she reflects and how effortlessly she drops golden one-liners. Since 2021, Betty has been making frequent appearances in the UK theatre scene with award-winning works like Unforgettable Girl and Stamping in the Graveyard. In this conversation, we talked with Betty about her upcoming show Prayers for a Hungry Ghost at the Barbican Centre and dived into her creative philosophy.

Is her name real? It’s a matter of choice.
Is theatre worth it? She chooses it anyway.
Making theatre in a lean way? But always resourceful.

来宾简介/Guest intro：

伊莉莎白・古纳旺（Elisabeth Gunawan，吳金蘭）是一位屡获殊荣的作家与表演艺术家。与 KISS WITNESS一起，她运用戏剧的力量，为那些在现实生活中缺乏归属感的人创造属于他们的空间，以此去殖民化想象力并赋予人们力量。

她的代表作品包括：Unforgettable Girl (The Pleasance, 2021-2023), the immersive headphone piece Stampin’ in the Graveyard (Summerhall, 2021-2025) and the ensemble piece Prayers for a Hungry Ghost (Barbican, 2022-2025)。这些作品曾获The Stage、Theatre Weekly和The Reviews Hub等媒体的五星好评，并荣获多项奖。

她曾任 ArtsAdmin（实验室驻留计划） 与 Theatre Ad Infinitum 的驻场艺术家，并入选 Hampstead Theatre「INSPIRE 2024–25」 计划。她的作品曾获得 Battersea Arts Centre、New Diorama、Barbican Centre、The Pleasance 等机构的支持。

作为演员与创作者，她曾登台于 布里斯托老维克剧院（Bristol Old Vic）、苏荷剧院（Soho Theatre）、曼彻斯特 HOME 与 Northern Stage。作为卡巴雷艺术家，她以 Glo Tesque 的艺名与 The Bitten Peach 团队合作演出，并入围 2024 年 Burlesque Idol 决赛。

她目前在 伦敦大学金匠学院（Goldsmiths, University of London） 攻读以实践为基础的博士学位，研究方向为通过去殖民化与交叉女性主义视角审视丑角（bouffon）与怪诞（grotesque）。这一研究延续自她的 DYCP 项目《神话、故事与世界》（Myths, Stories and Worlds, 2021）及她在格洛托夫斯基研究所（Grotowski Institute） 的驻留创作（2021–22）。

Elisabeth Gunawan 吳金蘭 is an award-winning writer and performer. With KISS WITNESS, their work harnesses the power of theatre to create spaces of belonging for people who don’t have it in real life, to decolonise the imagination and empower people. Their works include the bouffon performance Unforgettable Girl (The Pleasance, 2021-2023), the immersive headphone piece Stampin’ in the Graveyard (Summerhall, 2021-2025) and the ensemble piece Prayers for a Hungry Ghost (Barbican, 2022-2025).

These performances have received 5-star reviews from The Stage, Theatre Weekly and The Reviews Hub, and won multiple awards including The Stage Debut Award for Best Performer in a Play (2022), Intercultural Connections Pioneer Award (2025), Charlie Hartill Award (2023), Keep It Fringe (2023 & 2025), OFFFest Award at VOILA! Festival (2022), and Best Writing from Theatre Weekly (2023).

She has been an associate artist with ArtsAdmin (Lab Residency) and Theatre Ad Infinitum, and is part of Hampstead Theatre’s INSPIRE 2024–25 cohort. Her work has been supported by Battersea Arts Centre, New Diorama, Barbican Centre, and The Pleasance, and more. As an actor and deviser, she has performed at Bristol Old Vic, Soho Theatre, HOME Manchester, and Northern Stage. As a cabaret artist, she performs as Glo Tesque with The Bitten Peach and was a finalist in the 2024 heat of Burlesque Idol.

She is currently pursuing a practice-based PhD at Goldsmiths, researching bouffon and the grotesque through the lens of decolonization and intersectional feminism—work rooted in her DYCP project Myths, Stories and Worlds (2021) and her residency at the Grotowski Institute (2021–22).

Host / 本期主持

Howl，旅居英国的台湾表演艺术工作者

Mengting，当代剧场研究与创作者，现居伦敦

小胡，青椒，但也被学生叫剧韭

Post-Production/本期剪辑：Joy

Timeline / 这期我们聊了……

2:21 Betty作为印尼华裔的跨国文化背景/Betty’s cultural backgrounds

6:47 由姓名透露出的身份中的虚构与选择/Choosing ‘fake’ names

11:18 ">11:18 剧场创作不值得？/ Theatre is not worth it?

16:12 ">16:12 为何选择剧场作为创作媒介？Why Betty chooses theatre as her medium

21:24 ">21:24 用神话传说重构现实/ Reshaping and negotiating reality with myth as a way of decolonialisation

30:27 ">30:27 让不同的项目腌制发酵/ Letting projects pickle

33:14 ">33:14 Prayer for a Hungry Ghost是怎样的一个作品？/ Introducing Prayers for a Hungry Ghost

42:18 ">42:18 不想当导演，但当制作人感觉到自由 / Being a director is hard, and producing is freeing in a way

47:04 ">47:04 创作的经济可持续模式主要靠回收利用和善于应变 / Betty’s approach to a sustainable model

54:09 ">54:09 全亚团队是故意的吗？/ Working with ESEA artists

58:03 ">58:03 Prayer for a Hungry Ghost对Betty的意义/ What Prayer for a Hungry Ghost means to Betty

Reference/延伸阅读

• Prayers for a Hungry Ghost：Elisabeth Gunawan导演的KISS WITNESS剧团的最新创作，融合恐怖元素、肢体表演、实时电影影像、关于“饿鬼”的中国神话，讲述一个迁徙家庭在追求社会标准过程中，如何被代际创伤所困。演出信息：Barbican Centre（The Pit）， 2025 年 10 月 29 日（星期三）至 11 月 1 日（星期六）


• 剧团更早前的剧场作品Unforgettable Girl & Stamping in the Graveyard


• Betty的bouffon persona Glo Tesque: https://www.instagram.com/soglotesque/


• Jacques Lecoq （贾克·乐寇）：法国戏剧教育家，以其对肢体剧场和面具表演的系统训练方法而闻名。他提出的 “Bouffon（丑角）” 是一种通过讽刺与模仿揭露社会虚伪与权力结构的表演形式。Bouffon 以夸张、扭曲的身体和犀利的幽默嘲笑世界，被逐出主流社会，却以“被排斥者”的视角说出真话。

小明拆台 Ming Strike 由几位现居海外的当代表演实践者独立制作。
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